bowline tiers watch this:

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This topic contains 20 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  The Club Cat 3 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #1862

    Conchubar
    Participant

    #1863

    The Club Cat
    Participant

    Well, feck.

    Played around with some tat for a while, and I see what he means. Left- vs. right-handed bowline issue?

     

    Edit: http://postimg.org/image/rjcw4v81r/ and http://postimg.org/image/qvqj63ad7/

     

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by  The Club Cat.
    #1873

    Conchubar
    Participant

     

    If by handedness you mean whether on not the tail is on the outside or inside of the loop it makes no difference

    The problem is how you tighten the thing, if you pull the the tail, the above happens if you tighten with long end of the rope this shouldn’t happen.

    Other options are the Edwards finish and the fully rethreaded Bowline in the bight

     

    #1875

    The Club Cat
    Participant

    Aye, I did. I couldn’t seem to get a left-handed bowline (tail on the outside) with a Yosemite finish to do the weird noose thing at all. Ah, well. Might start using the Edwards finish.

    #1876

    Conchubar
    Participant

    try again

    #1877

    Thomas
    Participant

    Fecken scary bowlines just waiting to kill you when your cold and tired.

    #1878

    tprebs
    Keymaster

    basically, as with any knot, if you tie it wrong it doesnt work…

    #1879

    The Club Cat
    Participant

    The problem isn’t tying it wrong, but the way in which you tighten it. If you pull the tail first, this could happen, but bowlines have a habit of loosening if not under tension, so thisĀ could happen anyway. Should still be grand with a stopper.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by  The Club Cat.
    #1882

    tprebs
    Keymaster

    This is how they do in the Deutschland. Common with sports climbers as it reduces wear on the rope when falling all the time. (threaded through the belay loop twice

     

    Edwards finish seems like a clusterfuck. There is nothing wrong with the Yosemite finish you just have to do it properly.

    As long as you don’t just do a bowline with a stopper not. If you are building an anchor and clip it into the rope loop, if someone fell it would invert the bowline undoing the bowline

    #1885

    The Club Cat
    Participant

    That’s weird. Don’t really see the advantage of threading through the belay loop rather than going through the ‘normal’ way.

    Edwards is fine. Basically a left-handed bowline with a Yosemite finish and an extra loop back.

    Yeah, I found that out when I was messing around with the thousand bowlines.

    #1891

    tprebs
    Keymaster

    I think he threaded through the belay loop to make it easier to explain in the video. Try falling repeatedly on an edwards finish. same issue as figure of 8.

    I see no issues with the Yosemite finish but each to their own.

     

    #1892

    The Club Cat
    Participant

    Edwards is still non-jamming, so should be fine to undo after weighting. I’m just paranoid about using the most bombproof knot (that’s easy to untie after loading) possible, after someone died at my local wall back home using a (standard) bowline…

    I believe @nbrowne uses the Edwards?

    #1893

    Conchubar
    Participant

    Prebble, in this instance you are very wrong, The Edward’s finish does not tighten under load. It is my knot of choice and I fall all the time. With regard to “issues” the standard bowline is quite a loose knot when no load is applied, thats why we need to back it up in the first place! I can see the situation in the video arising if you use just the Yosemite finish and spend all day multi-pitching.

    I posted this so we may instruct people correctly and perhaps reconsider just a Yosemite finish when doing long days. Worth knowing.

    Alex, the edward’s finish can be tied on either “handed” bowline. It is in-fact neater on the standard knot. But you’re right this won’t happen when the left bowline is finished a la yosemite. I may start using that instead.

     

    The take home message is that the Yosemite finish needs to be backed up.

     

    As an aside if this does happen the loop turns into a slip knot which tightens on your harness so it should still hold. The issue is more serious if your second takes a fall and you’re belaying off the loop

    Also the left bowline is called the Dutch bowline. so called because the dutch navy teach it over the standard know

     

    Conor “knot nerd” Gilmour

    #1894

    Conchubar
    Participant

    Someone has died doing EVERYTHING. You should therefore be paranoid about and stop doing EVERYTHING

    #1895

    Conchubar
    Participant

    On an exciting note I just discovered a new rethread that is smaller than all the others mentioned here, doesn’t tighten under load and doesn’t do the video thing.

    Jizz

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