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Well, feck.
Played around with some tat for a while, and I see what he means. Left- vs. right-handed bowline issue?
Edit: http://postimg.org/image/rjcw4v81r/ and http://postimg.org/image/qvqj63ad7/
If by handedness you mean whether on not the tail is on the outside or inside of the loop it makes no difference
The problem is how you tighten the thing, if you pull the the tail, the above happens if you tighten with long end of the rope this shouldn’t happen.
Other options are the Edwards finish and the fully rethreaded Bowline in the bight
Aye, I did. I couldn’t seem to get a left-handed bowline (tail on the outside) with a Yosemite finish to do the weird noose thing at all. Ah, well. Might start using the Edwards finish.
This is how they do in the Deutschland. Common with sports climbers as it reduces wear on the rope when falling all the time. (threaded through the belay loop twice
Edwards finish seems like a clusterfuck. There is nothing wrong with the Yosemite finish you just have to do it properly.
As long as you don’t just do a bowline with a stopper not. If you are building an anchor and clip it into the rope loop, if someone fell it would invert the bowline undoing the bowline
That’s weird. Don’t really see the advantage of threading through the belay loop rather than going through the ‘normal’ way.
Edwards is fine. Basically a left-handed bowline with a Yosemite finish and an extra loop back.
Yeah, I found that out when I was messing around with the thousand bowlines.
I think he threaded through the belay loop to make it easier to explain in the video. Try falling repeatedly on an edwards finish. same issue as figure of 8.
I see no issues with the Yosemite finish but each to their own.
Edwards is still non-jamming, so should be fine to undo after weighting. I’m just paranoid about using the most bombproof knot (that’s easy to untie after loading) possible, after someone died at my local wall back home using a (standard) bowline…
I believe @nbrowne uses the Edwards?
Prebble, in this instance you are very wrong, The Edward’s finish does not tighten under load. It is my knot of choice and I fall all the time. With regard to “issues” the standard bowline is quite a loose knot when no load is applied, thats why we need to back it up in the first place! I can see the situation in the video arising if you use just the Yosemite finish and spend all day multi-pitching.
I posted this so we may instruct people correctly and perhaps reconsider just a Yosemite finish when doing long days. Worth knowing.
Alex, the edward’s finish can be tied on either “handed” bowline. It is in-fact neater on the standard knot. But you’re right this won’t happen when the left bowline is finished a la yosemite. I may start using that instead.
The take home message is that the Yosemite finish needs to be backed up.
As an aside if this does happen the loop turns into a slip knot which tightens on your harness so it should still hold. The issue is more serious if your second takes a fall and you’re belaying off the loop
Also the left bowline is called the Dutch bowline. so called because the dutch navy teach it over the standard know
Conor “knot nerd” Gilmour
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